Weta's Master Swordsmith's Collection

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    cstojano if my memory serves me I think those original Stings were somewhere in the $7k-$10k but I would think that even if this is dagger-sized it may be still fall within that range but it is really just a guess. Also good point on asking previous buyers. I believe it could go either way, for those that missed out they may vote for it but for those who want something new they may not. I know that even though Weta asks previous buyers their opinion on what they want to see next they also have stated that they may not go that route although now the I could see them moving more in the direction of previous buyers’ opinion.

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      Yeah, I’d say they’re less likely to do a redo of sting again anytime soon since it’s based on voting and I’d say most would be less likely to vote on it vs newer releases instead. I also think the larger actor version that they initially released would be more popular than the smaller version. But then again Sting is popular in general so it would probably sell out eventually. I know if they did issue the smaller version it will be one I won’t be picking up since I already have the larger version.

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        I wonder if they’ll ever release Sting(LOTR) again if they ask previous buyers and those that missed out on it in the past voted for it. I know the Hobbit version has not been released in any scale but they have the option to do so. It’s interesting with how Weta’s licensing works. How Weta has explained it is that they wouldn’t(couldn’t) revisit a previous sword unless it turned up with a different design in another project though Sting from LOTR was made twice(more or less) with basically 2 different and I’ll call it “slight” variations. They can release a max edition size of 50 but have only done so once with Orcrist and even then dialed it back because demand wasn’t there but please correct me if I’m wrong here on that. And I know you’ve said in the past that they can offer a sword a second time without issue based on scale. So I’m curious if the license really does stipulate that they can’t release a previous sword they’ve made or they won’t for other reasons. They could potentially get another 25 LOTR Stings in large scale sold if they wanted to I’m sure and they would be at the license max so then it could no longer be released under the current agreement.

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          Originally posted by Elestalrog View Post
          I wonder if they’ll ever release Sting(LOTR) again if they ask previous buyers and those that missed out on it in the past voted for it. I know the Hobbit version has not been released in any scale but they have the option to do so. It’s interesting with how Weta’s licensing works. How Weta has explained it is that they wouldn’t(couldn’t) revisit a previous sword unless it turned up with a different design in another project though Sting from LOTR was made twice(more or less) with basically 2 different and I’ll call it “slight” variations. They can release a max edition size of 50 but have only done so once with Orcrist and even then dialed it back because demand wasn’t there but please correct me if I’m wrong here on that. And I know you’ve said in the past that they can offer a sword a second time without issue based on scale. So I’m curious if the license really does stipulate that they can’t release a previous sword they’ve made or they won’t for other reasons. They could potentially get another 25 LOTR Stings in large scale sold if they wanted to I’m sure and they would be at the license max so then it could no longer be released under the current agreement.
          I don’t think they’re allowed to go back to previous runs at all at least for the same weapon and size once it’s sold out. The main thing being once they decide on a run size that’s how the COA’s have it listed. They asked those of us that purchased Eowyns if we’d be ok with a size increase and since most of us didn’t want it they kept it at 15. If they were willing to do old runs that didn’t sell 50 pieces they’d 100% of reopened Anduril and Glamdring pieces since I can guarantee they could sell a full of 50 total of those I’d wager easily.

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            Yeah that’s how it’s been communicated but the verbiage of the contract has never been cited or explained. I would imagine once they’ve issued the size and have it listed on the COA the licensing contract may state that since it is of a limited size and has been produced that it fulfills the contract terms so they may have to have an addendum added to the contract and a cost associated with that to release a previous item. Since we have know idea of how the licensing contract is written it can lead to speculation. I agree if they were to offer those earlier swords again, no matter what the edition size was, they would sell out and probably quickly.
            Last edited by Elestalrog; 12 December 2020, 12:20.

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              I have no knowledge of their licensing contract but I am shocked at some of the terms stated here. Presumably, they are licensing from the Tolkien Estate, right? It seems odd that the estate would care about such things as max edition size, etc. I can tell you this, in the art print collecting world promises, COAs and edition sizes are nearly meaningless. Integrity is what matters. They can change the paper size, for example, and call it a completely different run, or shift from paper to canvas and leave the size the same - different run. Collectors are apparently ok with this. I was not. Not saying Weta could/should do the same, and I suspect their loyal customers paying 5 figures would cry foul and quit buying. But I could see another company changing the box type, calling it the MSSCredux, and be fine with the licensor. Again, no firsthand knowledge here, just chatting.

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                Weta’s license is with Saul Zaentz Middle-Earth Enterprises/New Line/WB so the estate isn’t tied to it. Weta Workshop would more than likely not revisit a sword based on what they’ve said in the past. I don’t know what the license agreement is just what’s been communicated in the past. It is interesting though if previous sword buyers would be that upset about releasing a sword that was released before they started collecting or passed on previously and would become available again in another very limited quantity.

                Again not saying this is at all probable or possible. Just something to think about especially given the recent conversation and choices put to buyers of the Eowyn sword. If it was possible would people be alright with it?

                To me what I thought was interesting was when Sting was released and how they went about offering 2 versions of the sword and essentially increased the edition size. Now there were several factors at play with it being 2 different takes on the same sword but it sounds almost like Weta could have used the handle finish as an option but I don’t know enough about what they did exactly. Also with how popular a sword Sting is it played into increasing the edition size. The thing I would most like clarified is how many they actually sold in total because when the film version was offered the edition size was 15 if I remember correctly(its been a while since it was released) but then when they listed the fine art version the edition size was listed at 25 and the info on the site was saying “back by popular demand”. So was it 25 swords in total that were sold with a combination of the two
                versions or was it possibly 40 with the first 15 being sold as the film version and 25 as the fine art version or was it even possibly 40 sold with a combo of the film and fine art version. It’s a lot to take in so yeah lol. Either way they opened the edition size up, which I am and would be perfectly fine with. As I said I don’t know what the end result was on how many sold or edition size was finalized at for it and I’m not trying to raise anyone’s feathers here. Just a lot of questions and curiosity.
                Last edited by Elestalrog; 12 December 2020, 15:23.

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                  Originally posted by Elestalrog View Post
                  Weta’s license is with Saul Zaentz Middle-Earth Enterprises/New Line/WB so the estate isn’t tied to it. Weta Workshop would more than likely not revisit a sword based on what they’ve said in the past. I don’t know what the license agreement is just what’s been communicated in the past. It is interesting though if previous sword buyers would be that upset about releasing a sword that was released before they started collecting or passed on previously and would become available again in another very limited quantity.

                  Again not saying this is at all probable or possible. Just something to think about especially given the recent conversation and choices put to buyers of the Eowyn sword. If it was possible would people be alright with it?

                  I’ve tried in the past to get weta to make me a Glamdring and Anduril and was sadly said nope once the old runs sold out it’s sold out. I do still want to ask Peter if the swords in the UK museum are numbered pieces as part of the MSSC or if they are counted as artist proofs which would not be numbered. Me wanting Anduril and Glamdring I was just thinking of any way to make it happen. And if he’s allowed to make one artist proof of each maybe he’d be able to make me one too!

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                    Originally posted by ghettodactyl View Post
                    I’ve tried in the past to get weta to make me a Glamdring and Anduril and was sadly said nope once the old runs sold out it’s sold out. I do still want to ask Peter if the swords in the UK museum are numbered pieces as part of the MSSC or if they are counted as artist proofs which would not be numbered. Me wanting Anduril and Glamdring I was just thinking of any way to make it happen. And if he’s allowed to make one artist proof of each maybe he’d be able to make me one too!
                    Those swords in the Royal Armoury are proofs from what I’ve read. When Glamdring was up for sale there was an email that from Weta that they sent when it sold out that I believe stated the total edition size plus the fact that there was at least 1 proof as well that was built. If for some reason you can get them to make a proof for you please let me know
                    Last edited by Elestalrog; 5 January 2021, 07:30.

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                      Originally posted by Elestalrog
                      That was how I got confused a while back during one of our forum discussions on Sting being released twice and thinking they made the version of Sting from the Hobbit. My signals got crossed because Weta actually said to me that the reason they could release the sword twice was because it had been featured in two films looking distinctly different. So I was unaware that they actually changed the looked to Sting for the Hobbit, which makes sense because the engravings would not have been placed on the sword until after Bilbo found it. That being said I had to double check it and obviously as everyone here probably knows the Sting that they sort of gave a “re-release” to was the same one from LOTR. So they were using the logic that it showed up two different times but they released what was essentially the same sword since it was the LOTR design. They sent me sideways on it.
                      Weta never released a Hobbit movie version of sting with no runes as far as I know. They released the LOTR version but it had two options available. The theatrical release which has vynl vines on the grip like was in the film and the artist version which has raised silver vines which was something Peter had always wanted to do but wasn’t possible back when the movie was made.

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                        Correct, no Hobbit version but the logic Weta gave me was that it was featured in two films series’ and it looked different from one to the other so in turn they could release the item again because it looked different. But and here is the big but, they said that they could release it twice because they look different from one another but only released the LOTR version. And there were the two different handle options and what I was trying to figure out, because there may have been a something here, is how many total LOTR Stings did they actually make. Because if they went two full runs and not just expanded the edition size and presented the handle changed as options there is a possible loophole in getting a re-release
                        Last edited by Elestalrog; 5 January 2021, 07:31.

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                          There is the possibility that the person I was talking to there did not understand what was being asked and was simply reading from the licensing agreement stating they can make two versions of the same sword if it looks different in some way and since we were using Sting as the example since it was listed twice on their site that may be why he said what he said. He may not have even know the sword was listed the way it was initially with an edition size of 15 and the vinyl vine transfers on the handle and then going to 25 with a completely different handle set up with the silver inlay then being offered. On the site when it was released with the vinyl transfers they had a run of 15. I thought they sold out of those before they offered the silver inlay version because they set up a new post on their site, stating it was back by popular demand at the time, and discussed Peter wanting this version to have been originally in the film but the time and tech wasn’t there when they made the sword for the movie, etc..

                          My thought there was heck if you re-released this sword by popular demand I can think of 3 other swords with smaller runs that could be back by popular demand lol.
                          Last edited by Elestalrog; 12 December 2020, 16:21.

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                            They only made 25 total which was a combination of the two. Peter has stated in previous interviews not many people ordered the theatrical version. Most ordered the silver vine version. The COA for Sting is not numbered I assume because they had two separate versions that were combined number wise it didn’t make sense to number them. The COA just states which version it is.

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                              Ok well that clears that up lol. I wasn’t trying to go overboard with my explaining I just know that it was confusing not knowing all the details, they never explained exactly what happened with Sting’s release just showed up offered it with two different options which appeared two different times on the site, and so I was discussing with them the same thing you were about making a separate version of a previously released sword and because the full story wasn’t explained about what they did it caused some head scratching. Thanks for staying with me through this. I’m over here in front of my computer working, it’s a Friday night, excited about all these Peter Lyon LOTR swords, reminiscing about my hopes for a sword, and thankfully had some good sword convo and cleared some things up lol.
                              Last edited by Elestalrog; 12 December 2020, 18:09.

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                                I don't think re-releases are an option for such an expensive item.... imagine you buy a limited edition item for 10-20k and then you find out the release is not limited after all.... !

                                I am not sure about Sting though. It seems to be different enough to make it a possibility.

                                One thing I don't understand is what is the true difference between Human Scale and the original? And why would Human scale be smaller than the Hobbit version? Can somebody explain??!

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                                  Originally posted by DemisGR View Post
                                  I don't think re-releases are an option for such an expensive item.... imagine you buy a limited edition item for 10-20k and then you find out the release is not limited after all.... !

                                  I am not sure about Sting though. It seems to be different enough to make it a possibility.

                                  One thing I don't understand is what is the true difference between Human Scale and the original? And why would Human scale be smaller than the Hobbit version? Can somebody explain??!
                                  My thinking was that these releases are so very small that if they did it a second time it would still only a amount to another 10-15 swords so taking a release edition size from 10/15 to 20/25 is not much, if any impact to it’s limited availability and would not diminish the resale/collector value. It would not be an unlimited run.

                                  Human scale is smaller because to a regular sized human the “swords” the hobbits wield are dagger sized. So to a hobbit it is the size of a sword to them and but to us it’s just a dagger that they are using as a sword hence the scale difference.
                                  Last edited by Elestalrog; 5 January 2021, 07:35.

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                                    With Sting they can definitely make the smaller scale versions of both Sting(LOTR) and Sting(Hobbit) as well as the larger Sting(Hobbit) without it impacting their licensing agreement. I don’t know if many folks would be interested in a smaller scale Sting though. Certainly someone out there would be interested.

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                                      Originally posted by Elestalrog View Post

                                      My thinking was that these releases are so very small that if they did it a second time it would still only a amount to another 10-15 swords so taking a release edition size from 10/15 to 20/25 is not much, if any impact to it’s limited availability and would not diminish the resale/collector value. It would not be an unlimited item or run at all
                                      just another run of said item. Now we can go down the rabbit hole of how many of those would they do, etc. but I’m not asking for that just one more limited release and how would people feel about it.

                                      Human scale is smaller because to a regular sized human the “swords” the hobbits wield are dagger sized. So to a hobbit it is the size of a sword to them and but to us it’s just a dagger that they are using as a sword hence the scale difference.
                                      I think an increase in edition size will diminsh the value of the entire line for most of the collector community due to Weta losing their credibility. Releasing Glamdring or Anduril again is something I am against even though I missed out on the original releases. Past swords should not have an edition increase later. With Anduril they have a legitimate alternative by releasing Narsil, but with Glamdring there is really no other option in my opinion. A human scale Sting is also ok in my eyes, but I think the Hobbit scale one would be most valuable for a collector because that is the scale Sting appears in for most of the movie shots and promotional material.
                                      Last edited by asko; 13 December 2020, 04:58.

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                                        Originally posted by asko View Post

                                        I think an increase in edition size will diminsh the value of the entire line for most of the collector community. Releasing Glamdring or Anduril again is something I am against even though I missed out on the original releases. Past swords should not have an edition increase later. With Anduril they have a legitimate alternative by releasing Narsil, but with Glamdring there is really no other option in my opinion. A human scale Sting is also ok in my eyes, but I think the Hobbit scale one would be most valuable for a collector because that is the scale Sting appears in for most of the movie shots and promotional material.
                                        The Hobbit version of Sting would be the only other large sized version and I agree the majority of folks I believe would want that version. And I completely understand not wanting any re-release of past swords. I don’t believe it would diminish the value of any swords or the entire line but that is my opinion. I do agree with you that it could upset folks though. And they have said they will not do any re-release.

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                                          My 2 cents. I do think a re-release would damage the brand value. These types of high end items are always walking a fine line and brands come crashing in an instant when that trust is broken.

                                          I also seem to be in the minority in that I would prefer to have a version of Sting that was true scale.

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