The Grey Havens - (Slightly updated idea, seeking input) Jan 9th

[Kyle]

Hey everyone,

I figured now was a good time to share my plans for the next environment, The Grey Havens. I have a couple quick mock ups to share (like, be prepared to use your imagination, level mock ups), and to get you opinion on.

First though, my plan. I will shortly be starting work on the Sauron Medallion, which I plan to start casting in March. At the same time I am going to be recasting the Sammath Naur project. Over these next few months I also plan on getting The Grey Havens sculpt finished, so while I am casting the other two, I can start printing the parts for this project. Hopefully not long after production on the Medallion and Sammath Naur recast is finished I can start making the molds for the Havens.

Now comes the part where I would love everyone's input. I have two ideas for this project. Originally it was going to be the entire bay (probably my most ambitious project), but as I thought about it more, I wasn't sure it would make the best looking environment. The scale of everything would be so small that the environment would possibly end up looking fairly flat (though I do think with the amount of details, it would still be fascinating to look at).

So my other idea was to just do the dock (maybe the boat as well), and some of the buildings that you can see in the background, namely the nearest tower. That seemed simple enough, until I started really studying my reference images. There are two shots that give a decent idea of what that small area looks like, but upon further study, I found that the location (or sometimes existence) of objects in the shots didn't match each other, so there would need to be a bit of making up on my part (which is true for both ideas and every project).

So I am curious, first if there is any interest in either project ideas at all, and second, peoples thoughts on both ideas and which they would like more.

For my input, I keep going back and fourth between which I like more, and sometimes even think that maybe the one that focuses more on the dock could be smaller scale and include more buildings.

Anyway, here are my mock ups of both ideas (and remember, they are super rough, and are meant to give a general idea of what is in my head).

Very interested to hear what everyone thinks!

[Random Musings]

At the same time I am going to be recasting the Sammath Naur project

yes!

[BuckyUnderbelly]

While I love the idea of the entire harbor, I personally really prefer the "close-up" version with the ship.

Honestly, the ships of Middle Earth haven't gotten nearly the love they deserve in the collectibles universe. (Maybe down the line you might consider doing an Elven ship or a Corsair ship as an environment piece? Mm?)

With Weta's environments continuing to be so big (and getting bigger), I really love that yours are often so much more focused and almost ... I don't know ... intimate? If that makes sense?

Also, the overall "high-to-low" shape of the "close-up" version kind of mirrors the overall shape of Cirith Ungol, and I think it would make for a very cool bookend kind of display with that piece.

Just my two cents.

[Radagaster]

I prefer the first set of pics, as it allows better details of the ship, dock, buildings, etc. Also, because the 2nd set of pics look like a toilet seat from a distance.

[FlyAndFight]

In my opinion, when I think of the Grey Havens, there are really only "two" scenes that come to mind:

A close scene of our heroes and the Elven ship at the pier...




And the greater scene of the entire city with our elven ship sailing into the West and the eventual undying lands:




Either of those two would be my choice to represent "The Grey Havens" but while both come with incredible beauty, both also come with incredible detail and complication.

For the former, while the environment itself, which includes just the pier area and a more simple architecture, the Elven ship itself would be the center of attention and is something that many (I included) have been asking from Weta for at least 20 years! The downside is that the same Elven ship would most likely require extra work in detailing and complexity. Also, without the characters, will it look rather empty and lacking?

For the later, the majesty of the entire city and subsequent bay in the center would be most impressive and closer to the line of previously released environments, blending in better with one's environment collection. The difficulty will be in deciding the scale/size of the scope to be reproduced. Too small, and it lacks impact. Too big and it is a space hog. (although we've slowly been moving in that direction.)

I would LOVE to have both but if forced to choose, I would ask for the later, the majestic Elven city surrounding the bay. The actual "Grey Havens".

(Queue Annie Lennox "Into the West"...)

[Ithildin]

The dock!

[FlyAndFight]

I must add that I would highly prefer the exact viewing angles shown in those two photos that I posted. In other words, for the entire Grey Havens, making sure that the "front" of the environment is the dock/pier, with the opening of the Haven towards the "back", just as we saw captured in that scene.

For the specific dock/pier piece, I would prefer the ship being moored and being the center of attention but with the pier area being in front and the water behind the ship being in the back. It captures the heartbreaking goodbye scene perfectly.

Thank you, Kyle, for asking us for our opinions. I truly appreciate contributing and hope that I've offered some good alternatives.

[Kyle]

While I love the idea of the entire harbor, I personally really prefer the "close-up" version with the ship.

Honestly, the ships of Middle Earth haven't gotten nearly the love they deserve in the collectibles universe. (Maybe down the line you might consider doing an Elven ship or a Corsair ship as an environment piece? Mm?)

With Weta's environments continuing to be so big (and getting bigger), I really love that yours are often so much more focused and almost ... I don't know ... intimate? If that makes sense?

Also, the overall "high-to-low" shape of the "close-up" version kind of mirrors the overall shape of Cirith Ungol, and I think it would make for a very cool bookend kind of display with that piece.

Just my two cents.

Thank you so much for the input, and yeah, I really like the idea of having the ship, though even with the larger scale, I will need to figure out how do things like the mast as it would be way too small for casting, but I have a few ideas!

I didn't want to say anything, but I was thinking of doing a larger scale ship at some point, that would serve as a companion piece. Honestly there are a bunch of things that don't really count as an environment that I would like to do, kind of like Weta's Grond.

I am glad you like the smaller scope and size of my environments, after seeing the size of the new Helm's Deep environment, it just further bolstered my will to not making things too big. Sure it would be a fun challenge, but as a collector, I know all too well how important shelf space is!

I sometimes worry that people might get tired of my "high-to-low" shaped environments, because I have made quite a few by now!

I prefer the first set of pics, as it allows better details of the ship, dock, buildings, etc. Also, because the 2nd set of pics look like a toilet seat from a distance.

From what I have read so far, I do think the larger scale version will be the one I go for, and just like you mentioned, it will allow for so much more detail, and yeah, as I was throwing together the mockup of the second one it did strike me how much it looked like a toilet seat.

In my opinion, when I think of the Grey Havens, there are really only "two" scenes that come to mind:

A close scene of our heroes and the Elven ship at the pier...




And the greater scene of the entire city with our elven ship sailing into the West and the eventual undying lands:




Either of those two would be my choice to represent "The Grey Havens" but while both come with incredible beauty, both also come with incredible detail and complication.

For the former, while the environment itself, which includes just the pier area and a more simple architecture, the Elven ship itself would be the center of attention and is something that many (I included) have been asking from Weta for at least 20 years! The downside is that the same Elven ship would most likely require extra work in detailing and complexity. Also, without the characters, will it look rather empty and lacking?

For the later, the majesty of the entire city and subsequent bay in the center would be most impressive and closer to the line of previously released environments, blending in better with one's environment collection. The difficulty will be in deciding the scale/size of the scope to be reproduced. Too small, and it lacks impact. Too big and it is a space hog. (although we've slowly been moving in that direction.)

I would LOVE to have both but if forced to choose, I would ask for the later, the majestic Elven city surrounding the bay. The actual "Grey Havens".

(Queue Annie Lennox "Into the West"...)

I am definitely leaning more towards the closer view, with a focus on the ship, dock, and some buildings in the background. The ship would be pretty small, even in the larger scale, and that comes with some problems to solve, but nothing that I would lose sleep over, more like a fun challenge!

Yeah, I have a feeling I am going to be listening to Into the West on repeat for quite a bit of the sculpting process!

The dock!

I think it will be, thanks for the input Ith!

I must add that I would highly prefer the exact viewing angles shown in those two photos that I posted. In other words, for the entire Grey Havens, making sure that the "front" of the environment is the dock/pier, with the opening of the Haven towards the "back", just as we saw captured in that scene.

For the specific dock/pier piece, I would prefer the ship being moored and being the center of attention but with the pier area being in front and the water behind the ship being in the back. It captures the heartbreaking goodbye scene perfectly.

Thank you, Kyle, for asking us for our opinions. I truly appreciate contributing and hope that I've offered some good alternatives.

I will definitely be sticking to what you see in the two photos, though I plan to include some of the other building behind the dock. Thought the ship will still be front and center!

I really enjoy the chance to talk with everyone about these projects, I normally have an idea in my head and I stick pretty close to it, but there have been many projects where I have changed something as others have pointed out a better idea or solution.

[Radagaster]

How about the ship before passing through the 2 large entrance Mounds, kinda like an Argonath? It'll look like the top half of the 2nd picture, albeit without the actual dock. The question will be if it's recognizable as the Grey Havens without the dock. Or best case, with artistic license, you could emphasize the 2 big mounds, and find a way to include and miniaturize the dock portion.

[Shadowfax]

I had a feeling this environment might be coming, but still I got way too excited when I saw the new thread .

So, because I'm greedy and both of your renders have fuelled my imagination massively, can I say I want both?

I echo other opinions on the dock with the tower being a similar size to Cirith Ungol. Definitely add the ship!

But also, the bay I just know you would do an incredible job of. I think it would work perfectly on a base the same scale as Weta's Rivendell, Minas Tirith and Minas Morgul. A bigger piece from you would be a real treat.

Yeah, both, please, both .

[Kyle]

How about the ship before passing through the 2 large entrance Mounds, kinda like an Argonath? It'll look like the top half of the 2nd picture, albeit without the actual dock. The question will be if it's recognizable as the Grey Havens without the dock. Or best case, with artistic license, you could emphasize the 2 big mounds, and find a way to include and miniaturize the dock portion.

I honestly never even thought of that idea. I do believe that the dock needs to be included, as it is really the heart of the environment, but including the two peaks, scale wise, would make the dock very small.

I had a feeling this environment might be coming, but still I got way too excited when I saw the new thread .

So, because I'm greedy and both of your renders have fuelled my imagination massively, can I say I want both?

I echo other opinions on the dock with the tower being a similar size to Cirith Ungol. Definitely add the ship!

But also, the bay I just know you would do an incredible job of. I think it would work perfectly on a base the same scale as Weta's Rivendell, Minas Tirith and Minas Morgul. A bigger piece from you would be a real treat.

Yeah, both, please, both .

Glad you like the idea!

I honestly can't say I would never do the whole bay, the odds are pretty low, but not zero!

[MiddleEarthFanPA]

I like the idea of the dock and the boat being the main focus, but part of me always sees the opening in the distance as part of this scene.

[Kyle]

Hey everyone,

So I think I have my mind set on the version with the larger scale dock, and few buildings in the background. Before I get to work on really figuring out the layout of everything, I thought I would share an updated idea.

So the first render (A) is like above, a close view of the dock and a building or two, the second render (B) would make the scale smaller so I could include some of the other buildings that can be scene in the background and a bit more of the elevation. The dock and boat would still be front and center, but smaller. Would love to hear your thoughts on which you would prefer, A or B.

A


B

I like the idea of the dock and the boat being the main focus, but part of me always sees the opening in the distance as part of this scene.

Yeah, I know, I absolutely love that final shot of the boat sailing away and the fade out. The big ol' bay between the two makes it difficult to include both.

[MiddleEarthFanPA]

I would vote for the larger boat and dock since that would be the focal point of the environment.

[N2Darkness]

I gotta say, this is by far your most ambitious piece to date

.

I'm not sure about the tall buildings in the back. They are never seen and mostly just artists interpretation. Unless your considering this as the entrance?



I think to instantly recognize this as the Grey Havens you need the dock and the boat being center stage and then bay if you want to go large.


This will be interesting either way.

Here are a bunch for bigature images from the Appendices

[BuckyUnderbelly]

Hey everyone,

So I think I have my mind set on the version with the larger scale dock, and few buildings in the background. Before I get to work on really figuring out the layout of everything, I thought I would share an updated idea.

So the first render (A) is like above, a close view of the dock and a building or two, the second render (B) would make the scale smaller so I could include some of the other buildings that can be scene in the background and a bit more of the elevation. The dock and boat would still be front and center, but smaller. Would love to hear your thoughts on which you would prefer, A or B.

A


B

Hmm. That's a tough choice. The "zoomed in" version gives the boat more prominence and probably lots more detail in the structures. That's the most important part of the scene, after all. But the "zoomed out" version has more grandeur and scale (re: more architecture). (The zoomed out version also looks like it would be a nightmare to paint!)

But I think I prefer the second one (with the smaller ship/dock area and more buildings). Plus, you said you might consider doing a ship as it's own piece later on, so ...

[Kyle]

I would vote for the larger boat and dock since that would be the focal point of the environment.

Thanks for the input! I have a feeling this one is going to be pretty split.

I gotta say, this is by far your most ambitious piece to date

I'm not sure about the tall buildings in the back. They are never seen and mostly just artists interpretation. Unless your considering this as the entrance?

I think to instantly recognize this as the Grey Havens you need the dock and the boat being center stage and then bay if you want to go large.

This will be interesting either way.

Here are a bunch for bigature images from the Appendices

Yeah, this project is likely to be equal parts fun and difficult, but I love a challenge (at least when I am slightly confident that I can overcome it ).

The boat and dock are definitely important, I am just struggling with how small can it go before it is no longer a main attraction of the piece.

I really really appreciate the bigature images! One of them is a shot I was wishing I had, and really helps sort out some of the layout of the piece. It also calls into question whether version "B" of my idea is actually possible at that scale, I think those buildings on the hill are much farther back. I also think I am going to run into a problem with whichever idea I pick, the establishing shot that shows the buildings on the hill, then pans down to the Hobbits and Gandalf goes from bigature to and actual set. The problem is, that back wall of the set, with the stairs and arches doesn't seem to exist on the bigature, I am going to have to figure out how to tie the two together. I say problem, but it should be fun!

Hmm. That's a tough choice. The "zoomed in" version gives the boat more prominence and probably lots more detail in the structures. That's the most important part of the scene, after all. But the "zoomed out" version has more grandeur and scale (re: more architecture). (The zoomed out version also looks like it would be a nightmare to paint!)

But I think I prefer the second one (with the smaller ship/dock area and more buildings). Plus, you said you might consider doing a ship as it's own piece later on, so ...

Isn't it though, that is why I am trying to pass on the trouble of making a decision to you guys!

I think I liked the second one more, but you are right, it would be hugely ambitious (and tedious to paint!), and with the new images the N2Darkness provided, I think my scale is way off, and that those other buildings are much further back, so to include them might mean the ship would have to be even smaller. I think I am going to focus on just getting the dock and the one tower layout completely figured out (so idea "A") before I put more thought into idea "B".

Even if I do end up going with "A" and the larger ship, I think I would still consider doing the ship as its own piece later, because it is something I have thought about quite a bit over the years (not just the ship, but important and cool objects of Middle Earth being captured in sculpture).

[BuckyUnderbelly]

Well, I'm in no matter which version you go with!

[markv]

As always Kyle, please put me on the list! Thx!

[Levidas]

I'm really curious to see which way you go, Kyle. But this is certainly going to look insane! Wish you the best of luck bringing it to life, my friend